An America-Hating Flagburner Said This

A local bookstore had these quotations displayed in their front window today:

“A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people.

All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree.

America was indebted to immigration for her settlement and prosperity. That part of America which had encouraged them most had advanced most rapidly in population, agriculture and the arts.

And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other generations.

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.

It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.

No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.

The executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring war.

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.

War should only be declared by the authority of the people, whose toils and treasures are to support its burdens, instead of the government which is to reap its fruits.

Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Government.

Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect.

In no instance have the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.”

All right now, enough of this blasphemy! Who’s the whiny treehugger? (These quotes are all from the same person.) To find out, click on Comments.

16 Responses to “An America-Hating Flagburner Said This”

  1. Tom Harper Says:

    The moonbat was James Madison.

  2. me Says:

    A couple of points:

    In Madison’s time, there was lots of the continent that was sparsely inhabited. The country was, then, like a sponge that could soak up a seemingly limitless number of immigrants without negative effect except the xenophobic bigotry that many immigrants have faced. The situation is not quite the same as it was back then.

    Also, although there are still xenophobic bigots out there, the majority of people who have problems with illegal immigration have no problem with legal immigrants. It’s the illegal part that is the problem.

    Hence, point one is that Madison’s quote regarding the benefits of immigration have little to do with the present day debate.

    Next, regarding who gets to decide upon war, bitch at Clinton if you object to the Executive deciding to go to war. Bush got authorization from Congress, the branch constitutionally granted authority to authorize the use of force, for both the first war, waged largely but not exclusively in Afghanistan, and the second, waged in Iraq.

    As for the decision to go to war properly belonging to the people, this simply is not the way the Constitution set up the mechanism for going to war. That authority rests with Congress. Of course, if public opinion polls be any indication, the sentiments of the people regarding both the war against militant jihadis, waged mostly but not exclusively in Afghanistan, and the war in Iraq had the support of the majority of Americans at the time.

    My second point, then, is that, had the decision rested with the people, rather than with the government, we’d have gone to war in both cases, anyway.

  3. Jersey McJones Says:

    “Also, although there are still xenophobic bigots out there, the majority of people who have problems with illegal immigration have no problem with legal immigrants. It’s the illegal part that is the problem.”

    I don’t believe that, me. I think most of the anti-”illegal” alien crowd is bigotted and that bigotry is first and foemost on their minds. When you hear people talk about the threat to our “culture,” or feign concern over b.s. bogus issues like terrorism from the Mexican border or the drag on the economy (both myths), those are the bigots. Most of that crowd are bigots, otherwise they’d be calling for legalization as the simplist and fairest solution to the “problem.”

    “Hence, point one is that Madison’s quote regarding the benefits of immigration have little to do with the present day debate.”

    Nonsense. It’s exactly the same today as it was then - Xenophobic, Know-Nothing, bitches have always been here and will always be here. They hated the Irish, they hated the Germans, the Chinese, the Itlaisn, and on and on. Now it’s the Mexicans. Nothing has changed. And to say that pretty much anything Madison said has “little to do with the present day debate” is insane. Everything we debate in America today has something to do with Madison. To think otherwise is to be historically illiterate.

    As for the war - congress dropped the constitutional ball in order to put the onus on the White House to succeed or fail. They, in essence, gave him enough rope to hang himself, and the American people, if he failed. Well, he failed, and congress has discovered that they gave him so much rope that they’ve hung themselves with it too. Now GOP hawks are dropping like flies.

    As for your last point - if we had a DRAFT, there would never have been an invasion of Iraq.

    JMJ

  4. Chell Says:

    Those words ought to be posted everywhere- most have everything to do with current events, and I doubt they’ll become untrue.

    JMJ, being anti-illegal immigration does not make one a bigot. Some of us are truly concerned about our country, as we should be, and the issue we take with illegal immigration is based on the safety and health, economic and otherwise, of our country and legal citizens, not on race. Even plain old common sense says that illegal immigration depresses wages and lowers working conditions for all. Employers aren’t hiring illegal aliens because they wish to pay good wages and provide legal working conditions. Common sense also says that terrorists can freely come in wherever any illegal aliens can come in.

  5. Dusty Says:

    Blaming the undocumented worker for everything from safety to the economy is bullshit. What will bring down our economy is NOT the undocumented worker for the love of pete. Printing money whenever the feds need it IS bullshit and its done all the time, not to mention borrowing from countries like China to fund this fucked up war.

    Try concentrating on going after the employers..because if there weren’t jobs, they wouldn’t be coming here, you can pretty much bet your behind on that. Employers who hire undocumented’s should face the same sanctions as that glorious war on drugs..meaning they lose everything. Bet they shape up then!

  6. SteveIL Says:

    Another revelation:

    Try concentratin g on going after the employers..b ecause if there weren’t jobs, they wouldn’t be coming here, you can pretty much bet your behind on that.

    In case people have forgotten, and it seems they have, going after employers has been made MUCH MORE DIFFICULT thanks to another idiotic “liberal” judge. My guess is that the leftists in 9th Jerk-it will uphold the ruling before it gets shot down 5-4 in the Supreme Court.

  7. steve Says:

    The irony in not firing an employee with an unmatched tax ID is so full of bigotry and hate: FOR AMERICA.

    Regarding Madison from wiki:

    “As president, he led the nation into the War of 1812 against Great Britain in order to protect the United States’ economic rights. That conflict began poorly as Americans suffered defeat after defeat by smaller forces, but ended on a high note in 1815, after which a new spirit of nationalism swept the country.”

    Gee… ya think that is what is missing in this country? A bit of Nationalism??

    The guy is kind of like combination between Al Gore and John Kerry. A guy who invented everything from the Constitution to Global Catastrophes yet flipped flopped along the way, voting for a war after he was against it er um… against the war after voting for it.

    The dude after all, had George Clinton as VP… Must have been the good weed on the farm

  8. Jersey McJones Says:

    Chell,

    I never said “being anti-illegal immigration makes one a bigot.” I just said that I believe most of the anti-illegal-alien crowd is motivated by bigotry. I’m not crazy about the status quo either.

    But to say that “the issue we take with illegal immigration is based on the safety and health, economic and otherwise” and wage depression is a little misplaced. If we were really worried about these things, we’d legalize them. That would be a safest and most sensible way to deal wirth said issues.

    And common sense, being what it is, is wrong, as usual. If you know Mexican “illegals,” you’d know that they’d never tolerate a terrorist in their midst. If a terrorist ever tried that, they’d be coyote food somewhere around the border.

    What we need are realistically adjusted alien worker quotas, Fair Trade, and a fully functional INS and Border Patrol. Anything else will be useless and only of further detriment to you and I and the aliens.

    JMJ

  9. Lisa Says:

    The difference between immigrants legal and illegal and I am mean mainly Mexican,Salvadorian,Columbia immigrants is that they do not assimilate into our society and they bring their criminal gang activity with them.Because most of them are poor do not speak English and are poorly educated they are entitled to welfare and medicaid unlike the early immigrants of the early 1900’s who had to get by without taxpayer money. Alot of them have no intentions on staying here and they live minimumly so they can send their money back home.
    Hospitals along the border are on the brink of closing because of the influx of immigrants using them especially for child birth. It cost the averave Californian 1200.00 per year to help support them and who knows how much it is costing the rest of us or will be in the very near future.
    Making 20 million poor uneduacted people legal will not help our economy because they will be in the same situation they are now.

  10. Jersey McJones Says:

    Lisa, you really are a racist.

    “The difference between immigrants legal and illegal and I am mean mainly Mexican,Salv adorian,Colu mbia immigrants is that they do not assimilate into our society…”

    That’s a lie. Studies show they assimilate just as well and as timely as any other immigrants in our history.

    “Because most of them are poor do not speak English and are poorly educated they are entitled to welfare and medicaid…”

    That is a lie. Since the Welfare Reform act, NO immigrants get “welfare.” No illegals get Medicaid anyway.

    “Hospitals along the border are on the brink of closing because of the influx of immigrants using them especially for child birth.”

    That’s because the federal gov’t is not stepping up to it’s responsibility. If the states are having a hard time dealing with an international probelm, it is the duty of the federal government to assist them.

    “Making 20 million poor uneduacted people legal will not help our economy because they will be in the same situation they are now.”

    And this is just stupid. Of course life would be better for them and all of us. No more police state to deal with them. They have licenses and be qualified to get further education and better jobs. The SS system would finally show real numbers. They’re salaries would all rise. All of us would rise.

    Lisa, you’re just a racist - a perfect example of my assertion above.

    JMJ

  11. Chell Says:

    Illegal aliens do get welfare, at least, in this neck of the woods. Could be different where you are. But here, they commonly use fake or stolen identities. We normally find out through the news, when they’ve committed other, more noticeable crimes and are finally prosecuted for bilking our system. As far as assimilating just as fast, no, no they don’t. The requirements for coming in illegally are fairly lax. The federal government uses our tax dollars when providing services, including medical, to those who need them. Are you suggesting that our tax dollars, then, should go to support illegal aliens having what is commonly know as “anchor babies,” so that hospitals can stay open for legal citizens? Oh, right, it’s already happening. “They have licenses and be qualified to get further education and better jobs. The SS system would finally show real numbers.” - LOL! Since they use fake or stolen ID’s now to get welfare benefits, why on Earth would they suddenly start reporting their incomes? In a recent case here, an illegal alien drove drunk, killing one woman, injuring a child and causing much damage. Following this, it was found that she and her husband had used fake ID’s to bilk the welfare system many times over, gain illegal employment, and not pay taxes on their earnings. Allowing citizenship for entering illegally is not apt to stop this sort of crime, but rather, it will encourage it.

  12. MK Says:

    > My second point, then, is that, had the decision
    > rested with the people, rather than with the
    > government, we’d have gone to war in both cases,
    > anyway.

    That’s true but only because Madison’s first observation (which is as true today as ever) was that democracy can only flourish and function with an informed citizenry.

    Sadly, we don’t have that. Except for political and news junkies, most people aren’t much into their civic duty or being informed. They are sponges soaking up what comes from their radio and TV, if they are connected at all.

    It is into that civic and mental laziness that Bush’s propaganda was able to work so effectively to the point where it can be said that “had the decision rested with the people, rather than with the government, we’d have gone to war in both cases, anyway.”

    Ask yourself how many still falsely believe Iraq/Hussein had something to do with 9/11? That common misperception didn’t come from nowhere. It came from mental laziness and those who exploited that laziness.

  13. MK Says:

    > I don’t believe that, me.I think most of the anti-”illegal”
    > alien crowd is bigotted and that bigotry is first and
    > foemost on their minds. When you hear people talk
    > about the threat to our “culture,” or feign concern over
    > b.s. bogus issues like terrorism from the Mexican
    > border or the drag on the economy (both myths),
    > those are the bigots. Most of that crowd are bigots,
    > otherwise they’d be calling for legalization as the
    > simplist and fairest solution to the “problem.”

    I don’t like to generalize, but that’s been my experience as well. The oh-we’re-only-against-the-illegals crowd are also the same ones making ethnic slurs (dot-head, etc.) and the like.

    So, yes, I am more likely to question the motivation of those who claim to only be against illegal immigrants. In general, I believe they are afraid of anything or anyone that they are not used to.

    Unfamiliarity - especially culturally - makes a lot of people confused and uncomfortable. It’s always been that way. And that’s why we’ll always have episodes in American history where a new wave of immigrants are treated badly.

    However, with that said, I don’t appreciate my fellow liberals who think there is no merit to the concern about illegal immigration. As if dismissing the bigots magically makes the problem go away.

  14. Jersey McJones Says:

    Cehll, undoc aliens commit less crimes than the general public, pay taxes (2/3rds of them pay taxes, and all of them pay sales, property, and otehr taxes and fees), assimilate at the same rate as every other group who’s ever come, period. All of this is fact and you can look it up.

    JMJ

  15. Chell Says:

    JMJ, 100% of illegal aliens commit a crime the instant they set foot on American soil. And let’s look at property taxes. Again, I reference the area in which I live. It is common for illegal aliens to rent apartments. Now, you might say this is proof that they pay the same property taxes as legal citizens. Well, legal citizens are generally not allowed to rent in the same manner as illegal aliens, meaning, 15 or more people in a one or two bedroom apartment, taking shifts on the sleeping mats on the floor. If a person looks hard enough, he can always find someone to tell him the sky is clear even though upon sticking his head out the door he will see storm clouds.

  16. Jersey McJones Says:

    Oh, by the way, it’s 2/3rds of illegal aliens pay “FICA” taxes. Sorry’ bout that.

    Chell, pretty much every citizen in America has committed a crime. That’s the consequence of of living in a society with a lot of rules of behavior, and documentation. We have 2 million people incarcerated at any given time. We’re already living in a police state. How much more do you want? Can you tell an illegal from a legal in a crowd? Can you tell their kids apart?

    We could shut down the southern border very easily and constitutionally, but Big Agro and a few other interest groups would squash such initiative. Hell, Tancredo isn’t dropping out for nothing. He’s in trouble at home. The fact is that the powers that be want the status quo when it comes to immigration. We should find a way to get along with, rather than punish, the immigrants that the Powers That Be enable. Whose fault is it, really? If you were a poor Meican, what would you do?

    JMJ

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