Committed to Ending the War?
Olympia WA war protesters do a little civil disobedience to prevent movement of military equipment last weekend. These same tactics were used during the Vietnam war. Why aren’t they used today? Is it that people don’t care as much as we did back then? These people in WA are committed to ending the war..are people that committed now?
November 14th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Thanks Cranky for putting it up for me
A quick google of the city, Olympia, and the word protest shows only WA state media and the IHT picked up this story.
November 15th, 2007 at 10:39 am
You guys are great. No one is protecting our soldiers, so it is up to us to make it peacefully known that we are the only ones who can. Imagine if every person who saw you on the street joined with you…and they should have.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Absolutely not. There is no draft, no tax and no sacrifice for most of us.
November 15th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Correct Christopher. Sad ain’t it?
November 16th, 2007 at 10:29 am
I am confused, you guys think there should be a draft. And, you think that we are not taxed? And you think that there is no sacrifice for most of us? Our country is in ruins, our rights are being eroded by the day, and it is our brothers sisters mothers and fathers going to war, if it is not us. A draft would be a form of terror at this point. This war is unjust, illegal and unjustified, not to mention ill handled. More and more soldiers are coming out against the war. They do not enlist to be some cronies lackey, they enlist for honor and to protect THE CONSTITUTION, which has been destroyed because of the effects of this war. This war should have been stopped before it started, but Bush scared the nation and bushwacked them into it. Now over 60% of Americans think this war is wrong. If you are a soldier I recommend you stand up for yourself and your country and DO NOT fight in this war. You have legal ways of not participating, and the country will rally behind you. We love our soldiers, but we hate the Bush administration. Just look at the polls.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Kat, I am personally against a draft, but realistically and skeptically, I believe the general population will not come around to activism until or unless the draft is instituted.
The majority of the public isn’t affected by the war. Only people who are compassionate and have family and/or friends in Iraq are the folks trying to actively end this war. The rest are sitting on their hands offering up lipservice when asked what they ‘think’ about the war.
I was active against the last war. The draft mobilized more sections of our country than we see now. I am tired of armchair activists. But that said, how can I expect the majority of American’s to participate in protests, marches and civil disobedience against George Bush’s wars when it doesn’t personally affect their lives?
The people fighting this war are those that enlisted for the money, and warmongerers who enjoy pulling the trigger, or other personal reasons I don’t have time to name here.
We are saying that the only way to mobilize the nation is for them to feel it personally..otherwise we will continue to see small groups of dedicated activists doing the heavy lifting to end this war.
November 16th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
During Vietnam the Guard and the reserves were rarely if ever activated.Because of the war the sentiment against the draft made it political impossible to continue the draft. When the new army was organized it was purposely made under strength to guarantee that the reserves and the guard would be called up. The hope was that this would stop and give pause to any future congress or president before they sent people to die.
It obviously not working anymore.
Yes I do support 2 years government service directly out of HS for everyone. The only exception should be if it would cost the government too much to accomidate what ever is wrong with you.
As for taxes.
1. deficit spending is wrong. If we are not willing to pay for it we should not do it..
As a % of our gdp we rank pretty far down on how we are taxed
2. Flag of SwedenSweden 51.1
2 Flag of DenmarkDenmark 49.7
3 Flag of BelgiumBelgium 45.4
4 Flag of NorwayNorway 45.0
5 Flag of FinlandFinland 44.5
6 Flag of FranceFrance 44.3
7 Flag of IcelandIceland 42.4
8 Flag of AustriaAustria 41.9
9 Flag of ItalyItaly 41.0
10 Flag of the Czech RepublicCzech Republic 38.5
11 Flag of LuxembourgLuxembourg 37.6
12 Flag of the United KingdomUnited Kingdom 37.2
13 Flag of HungaryHungary 37.1
14 Flag of New ZealandNew Zealand 36.6
15 Flag of SpainSpain 35.8
16 Flag of GermanyGermany 34.7
17 Flag of CanadaCanada 33.5
18 Flag of TurkeyTurkey 32.3
19 Flag of AustraliaAustralia 30.8[1]
20 Flag of IrelandIreland 30.5
21 Flag of SwitzerlandSwitzerland 30.0
22 Flag of SlovakiaSlovakia 29.4
23 Flag of the United StatesUnited States 26.8
24 Flag of South KoreaSouth Korea 25.6
25 Flag of MexicoMexico 19.8
November 16th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
A lot of the countries you list are socialist or partially socialist, free medical and education for all…that is why they are taxed sooo much. Taxing is not the answer for any of the problems our country is facing now.
I would also like to reply to Dusty. I can imagine your frustration. I am frustrated too, and I am 28, not of your generation. There are two reasons as I see it that folks are not being more active.
1. They have been scared to death by George and his posse. If you have not seen the PNAC website, I urge you to look at this NOW. It is the People for a New American Century, including dick and donald. They are the “THEY”.
2. I think younger generations are turned off by the protests of the 60’s because they seemed so radical, and though they DID have an impact, it seems that that form of “solution” was inefficient considering the energy put into it. Unfortunately, there seem to be no general better ideas. there is a lot of internet activity, and this has had great impact on capital hill. I DO think it is important to demonstrate, but people don’t know how.
I wish I was not in college right now, so that I could work full time on grassroots efforts. I do print a bi-monthly newsletter, focused on civic responsibility, though we are not partisan.
I feel like our missing link is the inability for people to come together. America’s communities are broken.
Also, how about our artists and musicians. where are they?!!! Music and art was a huge driver of the movement in the 60’s.
What can we do my friends? I am willing to put the energy in.
November 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Kat, I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss this..it warms the cockles of my lil black heart
I surely have seen the PNAC website and am well aware of what they stand for and how their plans are being carried out to a “T” by BushCo. I have blogged about it ad nauseum, your preaching to the choir on that bunch. I am well versed in the ways of the radical rightwing nutjobs..make no mistake about that.
The reason our general population is so fractured is because of the propaganda being spewed by BushCo and the MSM’s complicity in helping spread that message. Its divide and conquer at its best and its very effective.
America as a rule will not wake up to what’s going on unless and until they are affected by what is going on. The financial blowback is already happening because of our 4+years of warmongering. Look at the economy under Lyndon Johnson and Nixon because of the Vietnam War.
The Military Industrial Complex is alive and well however. The MIC loves BushCo and the feelings are mutual.
The only way I see driving more people into the streets is to take away their comfort zone and make this issue personal, plain and simple. Someone else is fighting the war and someone else is working their collective asses off to end the war.
Our nation has grown fat and lazy with excesses that we are told we need and we buy it all hook line and sinker.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
The reason most are socialist is because most of the world is dictatorship or socialist. We are basically odd man out.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Christopher you are scaring me. Are you saying that we should instate the draft, increase our taxes and welcome a dictatorship. That is a very volatile statement right now considering that there is a dictator on the bench waiting to hit a home run.
And to Dusty,
There is not just one way to reach the public. Also, I believe every American DOES see the negative effects of the PNAC’s international program in their daily lives. Although they know not who the PNAC are.
I personally believe that the best way for us to protect ourselves is to create strong communities. Get together with neighbors, throw block parties, Christmas parties, thanksgiving parties (where according to George Washington, we should be celebrating our CONSTITUTION) Halloween parties, pot lucks and on and on. Lets celebrate, talk and come to logical conclusions TOGETHER about what we believe, and go right on supporting what we all know is a good path for the future of America and crush these anti-American gold diggers out of our democracy and into jail where they belong.
We NEED community, Divide and conquer is exactly what they are doing, and succeeding, we need to come back together, one on one in our neighborhoods and communities to weave a STRONG web of American values from the bottom up. Vigilance is the price WE WILL ALWAYS have to pay. We can never think that our freedom is not vulnerable. One way to protect it is to value our founders ideals of America, teach it to our children and celebrate it in our communities.
Thank you, thank you,
Your future President of the United States
Kathryn L.
November 17th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Kat
Yes to the first two, no to the last. I believe in a mandatory two year government service wether it be armed forces, peace corp, or nursing homes.
I also believe in paying my way and not making it harder on future generations. certianly if the majority of us consider something worthwhile we should pay for it, If we are not willing to pay for it it can not be very important.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:17 am
You don’t have to play Ayn Rand with me. I believe the same thing, but paying your way is not paying more taxes. Paying more taxes is you paying for other people’s way. Keep that money, join the service if you want (only fight if you believe it is to protect the American people and the Constitution, or heinous war crimes against humanity), become a volunteer and give locally to your communities needs, or to national organizations that help what ever it is you think your tax dollars should go for. Did you know that all of our income taxes only go to pay the interest on the governments debt with the Federal Reserve. Corporate taxes pay for the military. Again, i have to reiterate that mandatory government service and more taxes are not only NOT the answer, but those solutions are hugely unAmerican, and leave huge loopholes for the government to take your freedoms away.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Hey, if you really want to put your dollars to good ‘ol American use, while paying taxes at the same time, open a small business…become part of the engine of the American economy and if you grow to a corporation, you can pay for the war at the same time. And I am not being snide, the corporate tax is legal and serves a purpose. I personally don’t think that Americans who make huge amounts of money should relinquish almost half of that to society, but we do give them loopholes to get out of most of their taxes anyway. Why not just tax everyone the same, get rid of the loopholes and let Americans decide what to do with their money. Statistics show that we will put the money where society needs it. We are philanthropic, and we are entrepreneurial. One thing I agree with Bush on is if you give us our money, we will build a better America with it than the government can.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:25 am
That’s conservative.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Kat,
And yet, despite that, America has the highest child mortality of the Westren world, more than three tmes the best (3/1000 for Sweeden, 9.8/1000 for America). It thinks that allowing a 12th of its population to have no health care is a good thing. Sorry, but the society you’re describing is not America at the moment.
November 19th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Kat
Exactly how do you wish to pay for the war, social programs, the military, FEMA and the other government programs without taxes. It has been proven over and over again that supply side economics is exactly what Bush I said - voodoo economics. The Laffeter curve is a laff.
If this country is not worth two years of government service than you can not think much of it.
November 19th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
You miss my point. Not that two years of service is not worth it. I have been running a community organization as a volunteer for 3 yrs. This sort of activity should not be MANDATED. It should arise from a sense of civic responsibility as a volunteer effort.
And to Paul…
I guess most Americans think “someone is taking care of it”. Sadly, but verily, most Americans are very simple people who have no reason to believe that their leaders are not keeping the ship “ship shape”.
Yes. It definitely is not the America we have now, but it is the America we could have in the future.
ENOUGH OF THIS TALK, LET’S DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Here we are, a country away from each other, (I think). Let’s start something on each side of the country and see how long it takes to reach the middle. Have you heard of the onedollardvdproject? Check it out on the internet. Let’s hold forums and encourage others to hold forums discussing these issues, so that we may make a last ditch effort to save ourselves before someone accidentally drops a bomb on Iran and I die from a bombing backlash targeted at D.C. and Philly.
I don’t want to die a fiery death, please help.
November 19th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Oh, yeah, and I think I already answered your questions about taxes.
Currently Corporate taxes pay for military…
Philanthropy should pay for social services locally, with limited Gov’t reserves for emergency situations (where an area doesn’t have the philanthropist to support food/shelter etc)
We should be taxed indirectly as is stated in the CONSTITUTION flatly for other necessary government services.
Of course it would help if we didn’t have to pay billions of dollars on interest to the Federal Reserve bank.
Obviously our tax system is broken…who will fix it? Woe to the next generations.