Third Rail of Immigration Politics
Illegal immigration is a real problem in this nation and no matter how much all of the candidates try to bob and weave away from it, it is still the 400 pound gorilla in your part of America. There are those out there that believe we should buy the Great Wall of China and move it piece by piece to the border with Mexico. There are also those amongst us that believe that the only crime many of these illegal immigrants have committed was not coming here legally. Once here they melt into society and fade in to being just another part of America. Huge crime there.
With neither political party willing to admit that our nations immigration policy is busted they are backing off of the topic because it is the easiest route for their campaign. That sounds similar to what the latest votes on immigration reform were in the house recently. Their changes in position is not about illegal immigrants or the broken policies of the past twenty plus years, it’s about votes. Voters have an opinion and neither side has the guts to stand firmly when it comes to fixing our immigration problem.
With our nation having an illegal immigration problem the candidates are backing up to the safe zone that does not offend illegal immigrants or those that might think the current laws are a joke. Does that not in fact point out that this issue, according to the pull back by the candidates, really is not important to legal immigrants and citizens born in the good old USA?
Candidates Walk a Tightrope on Immigration By MICHAEL LUO
Published: November 18, 2007THE Republican presidential candidates talk about illegal immigration as if they were in an arms race on toughness. The Democratic candidates have begun to tread more warily on the issue, as their debate last week in Las Vegas showed, but they still favor the language of accommodation over alarm.
Each approach, political strategists and officials warn, could have costs next November. Pollsters on both sides agree there is widespread anxiety, even anger, about the impact of illegal immigration. But an increasingly influential Hispanic electorate could be turned off by a hard line from the party they turned to in increasing numbers in the last two presidential elections.
Much will depend, strategists say, on how the candidates balance their statements. “A Republican who only talks border control or a Democrat who only talks about benefits and services for illegal immigrants are going to find themselves in a lot of trouble next fall,” said Dan Schnur, a Republican strategist who worked on Senator John McCain’s presidential bid in 2000.
Looking at the Republicans at this point, it is often hard to find much difference among most of the leading contenders. They sound just as tough as the candidate who has been the angriest on immigration, Representative Tom Tancredo of Colorado, whose shoestring campaign recently began to run a television commercial in Iowa declaring that Islamic terrorists roam free in the United States because of an unsecured border. - New York Times
Maybe we should just all face the facts, while Mitt is down in Miami insulting legal immigrants in their native tongue, and Hillary is off car pooling with her latest potential voter base, the rest of us will be wondering where the 200,000 plus buses are to deport the current illegal’s. Somebody check the bus schedule but I don’t see it on the listing I have.
While many folks would be tempted to vote for the first person to come up with a plan to have our military (What’s left of it anyway) take full possession of Laidlaw, Greyhound, City of New York, Chicago, Houston, LA, Seattle, Atlanta, Miami, Boston Transit systems, and Durham bus companies to expedite the exit strategy for all illegal immigrants that is not the answer. We need a mad man’s plan to fix illegal immigration once and for all and I have just the plan…
While Rudi and John McCain are ready to build the next wall of China on our southern border I propose seizing Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware to get the job done, I might want to add Toy’s R Us, Best Buy and Circuit City for all the high tech electronics needed to maintain the second greatest wall for surveillance and entertainment purposes. We could sell the rights to the news networks or comedy shows. I’m guessing we will need about one million plus people to just watch the southern border based on three shifts round the clock with seventy or so holidays a year and six weeks vacation time each. We are going to need a payroll system to pay them all.
Bank of America should be seized by our government because they have that pesky America thing in their name. They should be honored that my plan chooses to invade them to save America. We will have to change all the signs out front to Border Under Revolutionary Patrol Institution for No Gringo’s or BURPING for short. Most of their customers are used to that happening every six or seven weeks anyway so the transition should be smooth. It should not take more than six or seven divisions to make them do the job for us. Losses to our six division of IRS workers will be high but that is the risk we will just have to take to save America from the plague of illegal immigrants. Then we seize all of the banks along the southern border and turn all of the branches into military outposts with gun barrels facing every direction. We won’t make the same mistake the Germans or French or whoever the hell it was with the marginal line… This is a two-fur because bank robberies will be drastically reduced at all BURPING branches.
We will need to feed these folks protecting our border so everyone in California will need to either get out or be enlisted in the Workers Environmental Nutritional Defense of Your Safety, yup WENDYS for short. We are going to need to level Los Angeles and San Francisco and Sacramento and most of the state to grow buns and pickles and ketchup trees. We may need to save Orange County because we hear that Sesame Seeds roam wild there and only the good ranchers of the area know how to round them up to milk them. Then again, we need someone to administer all the workers at WENDYS too.
We can not overlook healthcare for all of these border guarding protectors of America. For that we move Walter Reed to the border as an example of what kind of care you will get if you dare to cross our borders or guard it. What is good enough for our troops is good enough for the ones lucky enough to make it through the entire state of Texas that will be land mined. This may pose a problem for commuters in many of the larger cities but our border is more important. My apologies to the memory of Lady Bird Johnson and all her flowers but I think they actually were drawing the immigrants to our border.
I’m having a problem with Florida, should we just sink it and make all of the Snow Birds move back to where they came from or just sell the damn state to South America. That might offset some of the costs of a real system or plan that might actually rebuild Louisiana. I here they need some kind of a drainage system or levee or something down there but that is just a rumor.
I’ve got work to do on this plan. If my plan to invade all of them bus companies fail I have to have a counter plan and Kansas is just the right shape for a mega prison for anyone daring to object to my plan to solve the illegal immigration problem. Any Republican candidate for President can feel free to steal my notes here.
Holy crapola, while I have a plan to save the southern border from being over run, the northern border is at risk. I need to get Rush and Billy O on the phone. Together we can save America from future Americans!
OR
We could fix the immigration laws and enforce them! The current law(s) do not work, they are not enforced and it is a joke. Is amnesty the way to go? Ronald Reagan thought so! Is a plan that makes the unknown resident known workable? Yes, it is! How that actually happens is in the fine print that is scary to all of the candidates in fear of pissing off whom? Hispanics? What about the Irish, Polish, Armenians, English, French, Italian, Russian, Portuguese, Germans, Lithuanians, Swedes, Canadians, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Africans, and this list goes on for all nations of the world, are we not all Americans too?
Stop blaming the majority of illegal immigrants for your lot in life’s problems because the politicians tell you that they are to blame. It’s so easy to sling mud and eventually it sticks if you believe the sound bite. There is a big difference in telling you who to blame and the people that are entrusted with your vote that are supposed to protect you as an American that will still do nothing to solve the issue of illegal immigration.
Show me a candidate that tells you the truth that our nation needs a constant flow of immigrants both legal and illegal and that is the candidate that knows that America will constantly need a source of cheap labor with a goal that their children will have a better life than themselves. Parent’s sacrifice for their children. Funny thing is, my parents wanted that for me and they were born in America.
This is the land of opportunity after all. We all came from somewhere and that was the goal of our forefathers. My full apology to native American Indians of course. That is another post for another day though…
Papamoka
Originally posted at Papamoka Straight Talk…
November 20th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Personally… I am hoping for a major earth quake that separates San Francisco from the rest of the US…
Look, Mat… I get it… I am on both sides of the fence on this one. If we ship all of those people home then good luck finding a clean hotel room, a restaurant, a car wash, a dry cleaner, a leaf blower, Cesar Chavez Blvd, etc. And if we don’t do something then we’ll never be able to afford your health care, social security, public schooling and other freebies you socialists like to hand out. (Anyone ever notice that in order to form a socialist country, you need a dictator)
But seriously… The laugh of the moment was when Nancy Pelosi got the minimum wage increased for everyone but American Samoa, which is home to Starkist Tuna’s canning facilities… Nancy’s constituent in San Francisco… Let’s pay the Hispanics who are here illegally more and actual American Citizens less….
Ron Paul is looking viable for me now…
November 21st, 2007 at 2:57 am
steve,
Most of Europe is socialist and not a dictatorhip. *BZZZZZZZZ* You have failed world knowledge. Please try again later.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:46 am
And we can see how that’s working out for you Paul.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=490233&in_page_id=1770
November 21st, 2007 at 9:07 am
The only real workable plan is the one put forth a while back that would secure the borders with a combination of fences, increased electronic surveillance (cameras, drones, sensors etc.), increased manpower at I.C.E., an increased guest worker program and a pathway to citizenship for those who are here and already established into the fabric of society. Throw in strong, enforcible laws to discourage the hiring of illegals and the will to enforce them and you have a plan that could manage our workforce with protections that would prevent the exploitation of the foreign worker, better our border security, and yet provide business with the workforce needed. There will be an increase in cost to the consumer as wages will increase because all employees would be legal so would not have to accept lower wages as a trade off for keeping their secrets. Food would be hit hardest but I think most would be willing to absorb that. The problem is that the poor will be hit the hardest as they always are when prices are pushed up by policy changes.
This plan is not my idea but was put forth by President Bush and shot down by both parties but by Republicans in congress more than Dems.
Part of the problem facing any politician that would put forth any comprehensive plan including citizenship for the illegals already here is the oppostion they get from the voters concerning amesty. I listed to the lefty talker Ed Shultz who has been talking about this for last few days and the majority of libs calling in want the illegals deported. As long as voters left and right are against amesty, there can be no real reform. It is not practical or perhaps even feasible to put 12 to 20 million people on buses and send them back and many are in families with mixed status. The parents may be illegal but the kids not, or one parent or the other may be illegal. I know such families and would not want to see them torn apart. Immigration reform is going to take a politician that does not govern by the polls but does what is right for country in spite of them.
November 21st, 2007 at 9:50 am
Lisa,
I’m, so sorry that my correcting a simple fact that steve got wrong offends you so much.
By the way, 70,000 is far less (by an order of magnitude in fact) than the proportion of the US that doesn’t even get medical coverage, so when you can match our coverage, then you get to complain. Ok? But it’s a bit poor when a country with twice our infant mortality (9.8/1000 vs 4.5) complains about how poor our health coverage is. Put your own house in better order first.
November 21st, 2007 at 11:23 am
Umm Paul stop using that infant mortality thingy which is bogus. The reason for that is because with our health care system if a baby is born still born or it’s chances of survival are grim we try to do everything to save them whereas with socialized medicine they either abort it or don’t try to resuscitate because it costs your government too much to even try. So chances are they will die but we a least try to help them survive whereas your country doesn’t try so it appears you have less infant mortality.
November 21st, 2007 at 11:50 am
And out of the 45 million people not covered is also relative being about half of them are illegal . And also lets consider the fact we have 300 million people here.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:14 pm
I did consider that Lisa. Apparently your maths skills need some revision.
22500000/300000000=8% (US figure)
70000/60000000=0.12% (UK figure)
8%/0.12%=64.9* the proportion. So, even after halving the US figure as you wanted, there is still an order of mangitude and then some difference. If you really want to continue along that line, be my guest.
Could you provide a bit of evidence for the other slander, btw? Given the fact that I know of many young children whom the socialist medicine system has worked tooth and nail to save, I find myself rather dubious without some corroboration.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:34 pm
http://www.skepticism.net/articles/2002/000022.html
November 21st, 2007 at 2:40 pm
I found this written by a hospital worker here:
I work in a hospital and work with high risk infants. In this hospital, 70% of our children have Medicaid. Our physicians do not discriminate based on insurance. So, in a sense, our medicine is “socialized” because these children are going to get help and they do. They get excellent care.
One of the number one reasons that the United States has a higher infant mortality rate is that we consider an infant “viable” at as early as 24 weeks of age, 500 grams, etc.
I think we need to work on fixing the factors that contribute to prematurity rather than making blanket statements about healthcare.
1 week ago
Report It Asker’s Rating: Asker’s Comment: great points, older moms, these things are adding up to a negative for babies Is this what you are searching for?Rating: Good Answer Rating: Bad Answer
November 21st, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Lisa,
A colleague of mine gave birth to twins, at 24 weeks below 500 grams. They’re still alive. You’re still talking out your arse.
November 21st, 2007 at 3:19 pm
However, we are geting off topic by quite a long way. So that’s it for me.
November 21st, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Thank you Paul and Lisa for talking about the issue. Or venturing a little past it. Debate on the issue is needed and if the candidates need a pointer or two then we the people need to offer it. They obviously are backing up and away from it just as the Congress has the last few rounds that they had a swing at it.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
There is a very simple way of stopping criminal aliens and encouraging them to return to their home countries. Simply change the law to make it a crime to hire criminal aliens, punishable by a hefty fine and a mandatory jail sentence. It is already a crime, you say? Actually, it isn’t. It IS a crime to KNOWINGLY hire an illegal immigrant, but all you have to do is say you didn’t know, and you get away with it almost every time. Make that change to the law, and let the Department of Homeland Security actually do their work without unreasonable restrictions, and the jobs available to criminal aliens will eventually dry up.
I agree with putting up a fence along both our Northern and Southern Borders. Good fences make good neighbors. I realize that only honest people will respect our fences and only cross at designated border crossings as the law requires, but catching someone on the fence or right after they hop the fence shows intent to break our laws.
With regard to children of criminal alien parents that are born within the US, I believe such children should not be US Citizens and should be required to leave with their parents.
As for Ronald Reagan believing in amnesty, he didn’t. He did sign the last and only amnesty bill into law, but that law was written by a democrat controlled Congress. In addition, he only signed the bill after he made it clear that it would be the only amnesty program and employers would be heavily fined for hiring illegals afterwards. Unfortunately, the INS was not allowed to go after employers, and the amnesty program only encouraged additional criminal alien crossings!
We don’t need a guest worker program! There is already a program out there! The reason it is not used, is because employers are required to provide minimum wage and shelter for their workers! They don’t want to do that, so the criminal alien migration continues.
Oh, there is a way to ensure the removal of all criminal aliens in the country. What you do is pass a law granting blanket voluntary departure for a one year period. If Homeland Security catches you within that time frame, you are automatically granted voluntary departure if it is the first time you’ve been caught and you have no other criminal history. The second time you are caught, you are ordered removed by an immigration judge and are not allowed to enter legally for five years. The Immigration Judge cannot grant voluntary departure or relief from deportation. The third time, you are ordered removed without the necessity or right to a hearing before an immigration judge and are barred from entering for life. The fourth time, you are subject to criminal prosecution with a minimum sentence of two years incarceration and five years probation and again a mandatory deportation for life. Subsequent arrests increase those penalties.
After the year period of blanket voluntary departure, if you are caught by Homeland Security, you are ordered removed by an Immigration Judge for ten years and on and on. Immigration Judges would not be able to grant any sort of relief from deportation. Radio and television stations on public airwaves would be required to put out public service announcements explaining that those here illegally must depart and apply for an immigrant visa the right way.
After all of this, allow Homeland Security to do their jobs and pick up criminal aliens wherever they may be found. Take away all Federal funding of any city that offers sanctuary to criminal aliens. Take away foreign aid from countries like Mexico that encourage their people to come here illegally.
That is my solution to the problem. Some of you may think it is a bit draconian, but I don’t think it is fair to those people who came here legally, often waiting for years to get their immigrant visas, to allow a path to citizenship to those who snubbed their noses to our laws.